[persian85033]

[A Whole New World]

Yeah,I was wondering about that XD though Pirates Of The Caribbean got less attention after the At World's End DVD and Blu-Ray.

[AladdinsGenie]

I should actually pay more attention to Disney lately in regards to the pirates thing. Between the real life pirates holding Americans hostage recently, I have to wonder how much they're going to be tooting "boys can be pirates!!"

[A Whole New World]

Okay,maybe it's more Jane Porter,Sally and Megara who are more damsel in distress,anyway Quasimudo is the hero,what you said about protagonists,most protagonist are heroes,and no,the Satan or the psycho murder are not heroes.
And about what you said about the Princess line-They never said that the Princesses are dumb or anything,they do try to teach things like manners and perseverance but they focus about dresses too much because the small kids only cares about which Princess has the prettiest dress,they don't know anything about them or their movies,actually it's a lot of Aladdin and Jasmine together,like dolls and stories,Aladdin is still there,if you"re talking about Enchanted Tales,it's because they should show Jasmine on her own for a change,no Aladdin to take the story and no Genie to steal her attention,but I"m really sick of this "Aurora and Jasmine for girls and Lighting McQueen and Jack Sparrow for boys",Disney is for everyone.

[AladdinsGenie]

I'd be surprised if Disney ever went under. They have way too many investments in private sectors, and people willing to buy them out if they ever made it to that situation .

The line is keeping some movies in the spotlight and giving Disney money, sure, but from the looks of what they're pumping out with that money, it's not coming back to them in ways that are helping in the long run. They're using old characters to finance new movies that they market for a year and then forget about. If they made something that actually had some staying power and not just a quick buck, they wouldn't be having that problem.

[Jafaria]

Putting this back on topic, no, I don't think Disney will stop their relentless princess-pushing, because they've already shown they're more than willing to destroy their characters' original characterizations to make money (sequels anyone?). And no, I'm not saying that Disney should be above capitalism, because I'd rather they sell some mutated versions of Jasmine if that's what it takes to finance movies, than go under entirely. But I am saying that if something's working, they're not going to care who's annoyed by it.

[AladdinsGenie]

But you don't know if you're giving up your life in that situation no more than you knowing if that's the last time you'll walk out the house and come back alive . One doesn't look as dangerous, but it's a risk. I suppose there's living life and then living your life, too.

I just...ok

So you'll feel guilty if you don't try to save a loved one then? And loved ones mean a lot to me, I'll do anything I can for them and they know that, but I'd do the same for anyone else that I see needs that help or asks me to because I value life before I rank it in relevance in my own. I have a hard time dividing the two and not treating people as equals, which my mother warns and fusses at me about because I get used/hurt doing that, but I'm learning I can't help that and I hate it at times, but I can't imagine myself doing anything else despite trying to . I get that people who are closer to us gets top priority, but why it shifts or at least how we can use a selective process for people who are important to us and not use it for others is what's fascinating me

....you'll "understand"? That's the saddest thing I've ever heard

It's not absurd to want a friend to live, but when you're in an equal position to help a stranger, why is it absurd to want them to live, too? All on the bases of "they're a stranger"? That's all it takes to throw help out the window? I just...I don't know, I give up trying to understand it

But if they were to suddenly go "Oooh, you know what? You're a stranger. I can't help you D:", a lot of people would be screwed. And if they're the exceptions, then who is going to step up to the bat? . It does take a person to break that by-stander affect, but I didn't realize it takes a certain kind of person. I thought it was just something implanted in us because I can't mentally turn that off from one person to the next.

No, I don't think less of you or anyone else who thinks the same for that matter. I think you have a different way of looking at the situation that I never realized is average, but I find nothing I'm saying or what I would do to be that exceptional (again, probably because I didn't realize I'm a minority in this ). I just thought I was just doing what anyone else would do because a few posts ago, I thought this was instinctual based on the fact that a fellow person needs help and not situational because they have to be a loved one to get that help . But that doesn't mean I suddenly go against my own standards by not helping you if you were in trouble because of the type of person you are. It doesn't work that way for me.

[Salukfan]

Those are all true... except that it's out of my hands at that point. I'm not making a decision to willingly give up my life. I don't live in fear of leaving my house or living my life. My family members do that and I *despise* it. But I think fear of going out of your house at night isn't the same of running into a burning building when you're not likely to succeed. Totally different level. One is just living life... the other is risking that life, deliberately, when the chances of failure are huge. No thanks. Yeah, there's a risk in both... but I'll take my chances of going outside, thanks. And yeah, those deaths are sad, but I'm hardly depressed by them. It's a damn shame, but does it ruin my day? No.

Oh, of course it would affect me. I'd be stunned, saddened, and overwhelmed by the moment, certainly. But beyond the first few hours? I'd more than likely be over it. I'm willing to help, but not to the point of trying to get myself killed. Hand the hero a towel? Hell yeah. Dive in after them? Nope. I'm the cowardly sidekick in this situation.

Come now, you must know that saving an anonymous stranger makes better press than saving a friend. Seriously, though, I think conscience has something to do with it. If someone I love is inside that building, I'm in pain for them. If they know I'm there, they're probably wanting me to do something. And I don't want them to die (unless, of course they're trying to kill themselves... then I'll do nothing). Yes, someone I care about is worth more to me (and just me) than someone I don't know. That's a self centered view of the world, I can admit that. But I'm finding it weird that loved ones don't mean more to you than strangers. I'm not making a value judgement on a person's life because of my lack of willingness to save them... but yes, I'm more disposed to save someone who means the world to me. I don't understand how that's hard to understand.

I don't expect someone to give themselves up for me, or take a bullet for me, or end themselves to save me. I don't expect nothing out of life, but I don't expect anything beyond what I'm willing to find on my own. And if I don't take the steps to do it on my own, I don't deserve anything else. I can't expect anyone to pick me up and save me from myself. I wish that a friend would save me from death or help me in some way... but I don't expect it from them. I may be bitter as hell to be abandoned, but I'll understand.

No, I'm pretty damned convinced that I'm going to fail. It's inevitable, in this situation that requires strength and speed and skills in area in which I have none. At least if I die for a friend, I'll die knowing that at least someone I loved knew they weren't alone. I'm sure the stranger would want that too... but I'm not driven to provide it for them as I am for a friend. It sounds like an awful double standard as I type it and perhaps it is. But my inner circle is more important to me than any single person outside of that circle. Is it so absurd to want a friend to live over a stranger?

I don't think humanity would be wiped out because of this. This is a personal thing-- there are many people like you out there, people who become doctors and public serviceman and scientists... people who do great good for humanity as a whole. There are heroes and there are not. And I'm not convinced that everyone in this world is worth saving. To be honest, if I were someone else, I wouldn't save myself. I don't want anyone to die that sort of death or think that they deserve it for simply not knowing me, but at the same time, I'm not going to dive into a glorified suicide mission for them.

Do you think I'm less of a person for what I think? I think more of you because of this, because you're being exceptional here. I don't believe that's the majority-- I think the majority (at least, in this country) are people who would choose their own lives over that of a stranger. Is it a good thing or even the right thing? Probably not. But it is what it is. Do you like me less because of that, or see me as unworthy of the title of "human" because of it?

Hey, now. My prisoners don't have to be attractive. I'm not too particular here.

I want my Aladdin series villains, damn it.

[AladdinsGenie]

It's self-preservation, we all have that, but when you're not doing anything once you've preserved yourself, is it worth it just so you can eventually die in some other way? Cause I mean, you could get shot right now walking out your house or hit by a car, and that doesn't prevent you from leaving your home. Living in fear, while it is living, isn't living life to me, or at least not to its full potential and that's even something I'm working on. I don't wanna look back 20 years from now and not have anything to show for it except I can convert oxygen to carbon dioxide because I let my fears stop me from doing anything else . But I don't know, it depresses me to hear there's over 4,000 casualties in Iraq, or turning on the news and seeing a family got shot up for no reason at all, even if they don't have anything to do with me because I know they have something to do with someone out there.

Yes, but if you heard that person died when you were there and didn't do anything, that doesn't affect you emotionally at all? I'm not saying you gotta go cry about it, but Jiminy doesn't show up on your shoulder going "you know, you might have been able to help in some way"

But whhhhhhy is it instinctual there and not for another person when the situation has not changed? That's what I'm not getting You may or may not die with someone you love no more than you may or may not die with someone you don't. Why can't we make that same "I wanna keep myself alive" decision when the situation involves someone we love? Is it because we think that person might do the same for you, but we're under the impression a stranger won't do the same for us? How we apply and un-apply rationality and relevance is amazing to me. Maybe it's because I'm not really caring if I know you or not because a human is a human to me. There a human long before that's my/someone's mother, sister, friend, brother, whatever. How do we skip that part, the very thing that should make them worth it, and go straight to titles or relevance in my life? If we all did that, most of the human species would be wiped out
See, I was always the person in my psychology class that said I'd save the cat, go get the human, give the cat to the human to hold, scoop up both of them and get out But that's what you demand out of life? Nothing? Really? And you want decades more of that?

You're operating under the assumption that if you try = you're going to fail, and you don't know that no more than you know if you try = you're going to succeed . That's what I don't get about the stranger/someone I love scenario. If I try to save my mom = I'm going to fail (but that's ok because it has a purpose) versus If I try to save a stranger = I'm going to fail (and that's not ok because it doesn't have a purpose). The story hasn't changed, the situation hasn't changed, nothing has changed except I know one person and I don't know the other, and that's enough to over-ride the same potential failure? It's just as hard in both situations, but trying to save our mother will...do what? Clear our conscience? Make us look better in the newspaper article? Feel like we're doing the right thing even more? The outcome won't necessarily change either, but we make a choice between the two and somehow weight one is more important than the other. That's what I don't understand
How would you not be a part of the story, though? People who give up their lives for someone else aren't a part of the story just because they don't know the results to tell them, or have that experience on their life belt afterwards?

See, I don't think I'm being brave at all. I thought I was just being a person. I don't know what I am anymore .

Oh, well, that changes everything. Let's hope someone attractive wanders in your house looking for their pet you've held captive

Bawww

[Salukfan]

I avoid some issues, but generally, I talk a lot to myself. Now, do I use the things I've realized? Not usually. But you know that.

I still argue that my one chance to see this world >>> some random person's life. There's billions of people in this world; I'm not going to get my flesh destroyed for every single one of them. Nor do I expect that from anyone else. Is that hubris on my part? Probably. But, let's see-- decades more years of life and experience or a forced cremation? To me, that choice is obvious. I'm not in shape, I can't run, I'm weak, and I'm a coward... I'd be about the worst hero ever and would certainly die. If I thought I had a chance, the probability of running into that fire would be much, much higher.

I used the "it doesn't matter" thing in speaking of a random accident I'm told about, but didn't witness. "Some random person died on x-street you've never been on!" And my reaction is "... so?" because it's not relevant to me. It's not apart of my life experience. Definitely sucks for the family, but for me? Eh, nothing to do with me. If I witness it, then it does have to do with me... but I still am going to go for survival > imminent death.

I still don't think it's rationalization to save someone you love. I think it becomes instinctual. You want to protect those that you care about. A random person, yes, is a rationalization. Pros vs.cons, if you will. There are no blanket rules for this. You could use this argument to justify running into a fire for just about anything. "Ah, shit, that little girl's lizard's in there. Time to die!" Just, no, that doesn't work for me. Call me an ass if you will, but say I'm standing between two fires. One for some person I don't know, one for my cat. I'm going for the cat, because it has meaning in my life. I don't feel that every single human ever is in my realm of experience or worth the loss of my life. My life is the same to other people-- irrelevant. That's ok, I don't expect any more than what I'm willing to give in return. I'm an eternal pessimist, I suppose: expect nothing and all you can get is what you asked for or better.

I wouldn't consider you "behind the times" or weird in what you think. We just have different values when it comes to human life. I don't dislike other people or think that people shouldn't be saved or think that saviors are stupid for what they do. I just don't see the purpose of giving up my life when I could avoid it... and nothing would be different. I wouldn't know the fallout, I wouldn't know the experience, it would be beyond me. All I'd know is "yay, I did a good job " and that's not enough for me. I guess I think like a writer-- I wouldn't be a part of the story, if that makes any sense.

I think you're an incredibly brave and wonderful person for how you see these things... hell, you're a better person than me. And who knows, maybe I'd act differently in the moment. There are people who want to be soliders all their lives, get into the field, and can't shoot. I could be the opposite. But here, now? As I think about it? I'm keeping myself alive, whether that's selfish or not.

Yes, but I'm willing to take prisoners.

Nor are most of the DVDs mentioned in the game.

[Meesh]

A message filled with as many smileys as moving points!

Amen! Preach it sista!

[AladdinsGenie]

Pffffft, there's some stuff I don't even talk about to myself

I am stunnned . I didn't know we as humans fuel our fears so much that even when someone else could die because of it, it doesn't matter because giving in to that fear somehow out-ranks a life on the importance scale

It doesn't matter to you if you stood there and watched someone die when you could have done something? Really? You're not affected not even a tiny bit? I am beyond right now . Someone's gotta matter to be saved now? We gotta know their life story before we decide if they're worth saving, and even then, the chances are against them because if they don't have family or friends around when it happens they're fucked and no one is gonna care? I just...what? Really? How long has this thinking been taking place? I just don't get how we can rationalize out how to do that for one person, but not for another. I need to go seek some psychology or sociology classes again or something because I am behind in the times

(And my teacher was right in saying I belong in the 60s. This is why I am so behind in humanism )

You won't even let them stay in your house

Which isn't a DVD in print anymore

[Salukfan]

See, I'm kind of an open book about this stuff. I don't need to feel really close to someone to spill my guts... there are people I'd prefer to talk to, but I still spill it. It's probably just 'cause I'm a loudmouth sometimes. As long as I'm comfortable enough to hold a "real" conversation... I can let loose. Unfortunately.

That's awesome of you. But yes, I'm going to continue my fear of fire/having my flesh burnt off. And I can't swim, so that not gonna happen either. Someone about to be crushed by a shelf full of can goods? That I can do. There's a chance it could kill me... but it doesn't scare the crap out of me. Yes, I'm a coward. I'm aware of this.

I'd want someone to come help me, but I sure as hell wouldn't expect it. I understand why someone wouldn't. And I think it's different when you love someone. I know this is selfish, but if someone I don't know or care about dies... it doesn't matter at all to me. It doesn't effect me. It sucks for the family and friends... but it's whatever. Circle of life and all that. Of course someone I love matters to me... and I'd want to risk myself to just know that they're ok. Because I know who they are and what they have and what good they've given to everyone around them. There's a very short list of people I'd die for. I'd honestly rather be alive to get to know other people, not dead because some dude is trapped in a fire.

(... gosh, I think my reputation as an Iago is holding up here. )

But, I could fall in love! I wanna!

At least he's in ROJ.

[AladdinsGenie]

I don't think people choose to grow close, but I think they can deligate out who that closeness goes to. Have you ever been friends with someone for years, but you wouldn't really call them if you were having a problem? I think there's people you call friends or acquaintances, and then there's people you know you can depend on who are closer friends who know more about you than others do. The difference, for me - it's probably different for others, is that emotional component. I don't get close with everyone I know nor do I open up to everyone I know, but if I see they're having a bad day, acquaintance or not, I do what I can to help. We're still friends, but I'm a lot more in control of who does and doesn't get close to me. This is also why I'm a sucker because it's always the wrong people I open that door to

In the case of the water, I wouldn't let my fear of a large body of water stop me from helping someone when it's just the right thing to do. Someone's life > my silly fears . I get to hold up that fear now because there's nothing challenging it, but when it's up against someone's life, I don't know, the choice is obvious to me. How CAN I choose my fear over a life? As a matter a fact, that's probably what I need to break me out of that because the reason why I don't like huge bodies of water is because I almost drowned in the pool since no one would help me until the life guard realized "Oh, that's not a happy child flailing in the water." With a burning building, there isn't anything stopping me because I like hot temperatures/fire anyways . Maybe people are afraid of fire, I don't know, but am I really going to let my fears be the thing that holds me back when there's a life at stake? Is it that important to hold up that fear at all costs?

I just know if I were in a burning building I'd want someone to come and help me, even if they don't know me. I'm not religious, but that golden rule is a great way to live . It amazes me that we muster up logic to save someone we know or love, even IF we might die - we don't know if we will, but then it goes away and cannot be found when it's someone we don't know . Why? Do we think it's a lost cause when it's someone we don't know so their life isn't as important, but it's going to a greater good when it is someone we know so their life is important? I don't get how we rationalize jumping into a building to save...I don't know, your mother and the two of you potentially dying in the process is ok, but it's not ok when it's you and someone off the street and if you both die then it's just irrational. Why wasn't it irrational before with your mother when the status quo hasn't changed? A life is a life to me

...you'd be a beast forever

They gotta put the series on DVD first

[Salukfan]

And I crush on thieves and rogues on TV/Film and am generally disgusted by them in real life. It's all relative, baby.

I don't think all characters choose to grow close to other people, though. I don't go through this process of "hmm, she seems nice. I will now be open and care for her" whenever I make a new friend, you know? I think it's something that just happens. Now, you choose to ignore the feeling... but I don't think the opposite reaction to friendship is a deliberate/methodical choice for all people.

For Esmeralda, saving Quasi was a no brainer moment, yes. To me, that's huge. Yeah, she felt confident, but damn I would have thought twice. This is why I'm not a hero.

The "probability that I'm going to die" overwhelms my desire to help someone. I'd pull out my phone and try to call someone. But nearly killing myself to help someone? No. That's why they advise us to put our own oxygen masks first before helping somebody else. I don't think that makes me selfish toward my fellow man; I just don't think jumping into a fire and getting two people killed is productive. Basically, I'll help someone if the odds of me dying don't overwhelm the odds of my success. I don't mean to make this overly personal, but I know you have some issues with water... if you see someone drowning, will you dive in?

I admire people who can do this stuff. I'm not one of them.

And, eh, this probably shows how much of an ass I am... but I'm still with the Prince. Yeah, he's a douche to the old woman, but I'd probably react the same way. Old man, young man, young woman, old woman... my house is my house. I'd try to be nicer to her, but that's because I'm not straight up id and can control that stuff sometimes. My natural reaction, though, would be Beast's.

Yeah, Tarzan's name is Clayton. I wish the Disney character would get some love. And yes, there's Ducktales canon. Too bad we couldn't get Abis Mal in the game. That would rule.