Aladdin Central Messageboard

[Hippsodeth]

*jumps into the original controversy*

Oh wow, what a good topic. That's not sarcasim, I really love these type of debates, but I usually come in too late in boards for real contribution. Okay. My personal take on it can be summed up in three points,

A) Is the author of the original article a black parent with daughters? ("With daughters" seems obvious, but sons exist.) If this issue was actually brought about by a young daughter, I can see why it would prompt the writing of this article, and the viewpoint would be understandable for said journalist.

B) I am not black, and do not know of any African heritage. However, I do belong to a minority group - actually, minority GROUPS, but none that can be identified by the color of our skin. That being said, I'm also glad there is no black princess.

My heritage, according to the Guess My Heritage people:
Greek and British.

My heritage, according to my ancestors bloodlines:
German, Greek, British, Native American, Romanian, Irish, French, and Chinese.

That doesn't mean I'm some combination of Mulan, Meg, and Pocahontas. (Ironically, I actually am to an extent, but that doesn't mean my relatives are.)
All Chinese girls do not have to be Mulan, but there is a certain amount of pressure, expectations, and stereotypes.

Aside from that, Mulan is a wonderful role model. The stereotypical black girl is anything but. Shiera summed it up perfectly, "O-no-you-DIDN'T! type." Disney's black characters already fit into that mode. A black Disney princess?
The sad thing is, a black Disney princess would turn into an annoying and loud CGI character voiced by Raven Symone or Kyla Pratt.

C) Africa does indeed have many fairy tales. There's a Cinderella story in every culture, Africa included. One of my favorite books from my childhood is Mufaro's Beautiful Daughters. It's not centuries old, but it is one of the many African Cinderella stories.

~*~

There really is no "white girl" stereotype, because the world sees the different Caucasian cultures more easily than they see black cultures. It's a sad but true fact. Belle and Cinderella are technically both from France. Meg and, to some debateable degree, Ariel are Grecian. Snow White and Aurora live somewhere in Europe, but the point is while countries themselves are stereotyped, Caucasians as a whole are not.
Thus, there's five different white princesses around, plus Disney heroines that aren't princesses.

I'm glad Jasmine is Disney's, by the way. There's an insane amount of Anti-Arab talk by narrow minded Americans today.

(Oh, Shiera - Your cousin's story is . Heh.)

~*~

I'm just going to tuck one more thing in before I quit. I mentioned before being born into minority groups that have nothing to do with heritage, skin color, or physical looks whatsoever. (Quite frankly, I'm emotionally screwed, but there's no way in hell that means I'm unable to do anything above and beyond the norm. I've lived off ambition, grit, and victories for most of my life now, because all my mother expected out of me was for me to look pretty and be stupid.)
The other day, I came across polls a friend of mine put up for a college assignment. One of the questions was something along the lines of, "Of the following, which Disney heroine is the best role model for young girls?" It makes me sick that I am the only one who chose Esmeralda out of the options.
"I ask for nothing that I can get by, but I know so many less lucky than I. Please help my people -"

~*~

Does the gypsy Esmeralda look almost black to you? There you have it. Who cares that she's not a princess. She IS a role model - even if Phoebus is basically suck.

[AladdinsGenie]

[Hippsodeth]

Of the PRINCESSES, I choose Cinderella.

[Syera]

[Hippsodeth]

[APK]

[Hippsodeth]

Side characters don't necessariily have to be stereotypes. Main characters tend to be moreso. Since sidekicks (generally) are more annoying and one sided, I'd kill the television if your "good chance" becomes reality.
I have this bad image of Raven as some African princess going, "OH SNAP!" and Kyla saying, "You tell 'em, girl!"

[Emmlei]

I'm optimisitic. I feel the writers will create a well-rounded and original character that won't follow stereotypes. I think bck to Sweet from Atlantis, he was pretty well rounded and one of my faves.

[Syera]

I dunno... remember the Muses?
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Weblog | SH.net | Ed-sprite by Janette

[Emmlei]

[AmethystFae]

Ick! I just get so nausious when the subject of Raven Simone is brought up. And BTW, when talkint about her, I usually refer to her as Raven [something else that starts with S.]

Oh, I saw Song of the South a couple of weeks ago, and I didn't have a problem with it. Of course, some people might argue that it's because I'm white, but I can usually put myself in other people's shoes regarding these things. BTW, was there much contraversy over Dumbo? I mean, I hear more bellyaching about the Disney Princesses, and I could list off the problems one might have with Dumbo, but I've never heard them from anybody else. And for the record, I liked Dumbo, but I can never watch the scene where he goes to visit his mother.

~Hikaru
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"HARDER, FASTER, DEEPER. . . HUH!!!!!!!"

[Hippsodeth]

*hasn't seen Dumbo in ages*
What's the potential controversy about him seeing his mother locked up?
_________________
"What has my mother taught me? Everything that has given my life dimension. The understanding that empathy is all we have. And the love of whimsy that has saved my - *laughs* - what's left of it. She was a genious at saying 'so mine are the eccentricities of a nightingale. That makes my nightingale's song prettier.' " ~ ~ Kate Mulgrew, on her mother.

Joan Mulgrew passed away this summer. Attina, you're my nightingale and you've given me everything. I love you beyond eternity.

[AmethystFae]

No no no. There's no contraversy with that, it just makes me cry.
But the movie has a list of other contraversial issues, and maybe you'll laugh, or just shake your head when I point them out.

1) Child abuse ~ When Mrs. Jumbo spanks one of the boys who was teasing Dumbo.
2) Cruelty to animals ~ The scene directly following the forementioned scene.
3) Chemical dependency ~ Dumbo and Timothy got wasted after the scene where they visited Mrs. Jumbo. (when the clowns poured beer into the water.) And then we come to the scene with the pink elephants, which were halucinations enduced by alcahol.
4) Racism ~ the scene with the crows. I'm surprised if nobody screamed about that.

As I mentioned before, these aren't problems ~I~ have with the movie, but it's the same types of things people pick out of other movies and TV.

~Hikaru
_________________
"HARDER, FASTER, DEEPER. . . HUH!!!!!!!"

[Hippsodeth]

True. I feel sorry for a younger friend of mine whose mother wouldn't let her see What a Girl Wants. WTF? "Well, her mother was in a rock band....and....they....kissed." OMFG, woman. Your daughter is 12. She watches stuff with people kissing and listens to rock music all the time. I know you meant, "The main character was born before her parents were officially married," but *meeeeeeep* - so was your daughter!

Back to Dumbo.

1) Oh yeah, that's just stupid that people would yell about child abuse over something like that.

2) So...no watching 101 Dalmations, while we're at it?

3) Hah hah, you don't know how much I love the 1982 version of Annie. I've played Pepper onstage in Roseanne Sorentino's style. The Disney version butched everything. How is it more child-friendly to watch Rooster slash a knife into Annie's picture and talk about murder than it is to watch Miss Hannigan be a slush and attempt to stop murder?

4) I never thought of the crows as black. But again, I haven't seen Dumbo in eons. People could scream about that, but I'd still snicker.

Why do people pick at TV and movies so much, anyway? "Zomg violence will destroy our kids!" <--- I assume your kids have *lives?*
_________________
"What has my mother taught me? Everything that has given my life dimension. The understanding that empathy is all we have. And the love of whimsy that has saved my - *laughs* - what's left of it. She was a genious at saying 'so mine are the eccentricities of a nightingale. That makes my nightingale's song prettier.' " ~ ~ Kate Mulgrew, on her mother.

Joan Mulgrew passed away this summer. Attina, you're my nightingale and you've given me everything. I love you beyond eternity.

[Syera]