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Salukfan
Tiger-Clawed Thief
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 1991
Location: Butler, PA
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 Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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I was just thinking about the end where Cassim throws the Hand of Midas to Sa'luk and turns him to gold... do you think he intended to do that? Or was he trying to give it away? Or was it a gamble? |
I think he knew Sa'luk would grab it. Sa'luk is rather impulsive, and honestly, I think he's a bit out of touch with reality toward the end of KOT- caught up in his revenge plot to the point where he doesn't see the big picture. Sa'luk finally catches up with reality when he realizes that he's the group's new statue.
I just think it's interesting that Sa'luk never mentions any desire and/or interest in the HoM until the end, where he randomly takes Cassim and goes to get it. It had to be a semi-impulsive decision; how could he have anticipated Cassim returning with the Oracle, since Rasoul was aware of his identity and was resolved to catch him?
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Ariellen
Scourge of the Desert
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 708
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Before I even read a post...
Do you expect us to be shocked by the subject?  |
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Ariellen
Scourge of the Desert
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 708
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: I have Cassim on the brain |
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| SalukFan wrote: |
1. How much of Cassim's dialogue to Aladdin about leaving his family do you think is actually true? |
Let's watch this in my head, since EVERY DVD AND VIDEO I OWN is at home... 
Obviously, the part about being intrigued by the Hand of Midas is true. Right...lousy attempt at humour...
I think he used the "I want the best for my family" to justify his actions, but wasn't focused on that idea for all of his time away. Cassim seems really proud and cocky. Aladdin's got some of that too, obviously, but I think Aladdin has more of a concern with what's right, what's noble, and 'doing good' that sort of keeps his ego at least partially in tact. Anywho...
So, I think he would have wanted to provide well for his family, but not just out of the goodness of his heart. HIS family had to be the best. And when he didn't find success early on in his search, I think it would have been easy for him to just keep on in the search because he was too proud to admit failure. And if he ever did feel guilty, he'd play the "well, think of what my family will have if I find it" card to himself in his mind to feel better about himself.
I do think he got back to Agrabah, but not as something that he planned to find his family, and that looking for them was sort of an almost tangential thought. And you know, Cassim's not a totally bad guy, so I think he would have been upset to realize that he'd lost them. Especially since he'd now lost his family and still had no Hand, so he lost on both counts. So, yes, I think that at THAT MOMENT, part of him would wish that he could just start over and have his family back, but then hey, what better way to clear your head that a good treasure hunt?
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| 2. Is Cassim a hypocrite? |
On one level, certainly. He talks about how badly he wanted his wife back, and one can presume, he's willing to go and put Aladdin's life on the line to destroy his enemy, doesn't have any qualms about stealing at his son's wedding (I mean when he's arrested...I know it's not AT the wedding, but close enough...), and for a man who claimed to want his wife back so badly, he sure was quick to convince Aladdin to leave his wife-to-be without explanation. Maybe 'conflicted' is a nice alternative to 'hypocrite,' though, because I don't think he's always totally two-faced, but he is two-sided. If that makes sense.
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| 3. Would the group be better off with Cassim or Sa'luk as king? |
Neither. I think that both of them are too driven with an ulterior motive that goes against what's best for the group for either of them to be successful. In terms of looting, Sa'luk would have been better, but he also disbanded the group pretty quickly, and it seemed that Cassim'd been leading for a while, and while they weren't prosperous, they were still taken as a big threat and still together. |
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persian85033
Elemental
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2061
Location: Agrabah(I wish)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I know what you mean. I always have those questions going through my head. Sometimes I wonder if heīs a good guy or bad guy. Perhaps thatīs why heīs one of my favorite characters. |
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Calluna
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 3692
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| persian85033 wrote: |
| Sometimes I wonder if heīs a good guy or bad guy. Perhaps thatīs why heīs one of my favorite characters. |
Yay, someone who thinks like me! *waves a flag for neutral/undecided characters* |
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11877
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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You like the shifty characters  |
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Calluna
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 3692
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| AladdinsGenie wrote: |
| You like the shifty characters |
I love a man who doesn't know what he wants.  |
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persian85033
Elemental
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2061
Location: Agrabah(I wish)
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Do you suppose he would ever have shown more of an interest than was appropriate in Jasmine? I mean from Spike's post about Cassim trying to get Jasmine's attention.
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AladdinsGenie
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 11877
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think he'd take it that far exactly. |
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Husse
Genie of da Pibb
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 3099
Location: Kentucky (fried chicken and a PI-ZZA HUT!)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Aw, I luv dat Cassim. Because he's John-Rhys-Davies and he R0X0rS all.
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persian85033
Elemental
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2061
Location: Agrabah(I wish)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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It had to be a semi-impulsive decision; how could he have anticipated Cassim returning with the Oracle, since Rasoul was aware of his identity and was resolved to catch him?[/quote]
True. Once Rasoul caught him, I think Saluk must've imagined him rotting in the Palace dungeon, or the executioner's block. However, they seemed to be expecting him.
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"I too am a member of your species, Captain, or I was. Perhaps I am not anymore. Perhaps you are right in thinking of me as an alien. I know I am different from you. You see-I do not kill." |
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Salukfan
Tiger-Clawed Thief
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 1991
Location: Butler, PA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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True. Once Rasoul caught him, I think Saluk must've imagined him rotting in the Palace dungeon, or the executioner's block. However, they seemed to be expecting him. |
Well, not necessarily. They could have heard someone coming into the lair, possibly a guard, and hid in order to strike.
I think, though, that Sa'luk realized it was a possibility that Cassim would return, given his reputation for escape.
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Calluna
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 3692
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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It all depends on when Sa'luk left Agrabah. Was it immediately after he told Rasoul that Cassim = the KoT? After Cassim was arrested? After he escaped?
Option 1 seems too dumb for Sa'luk to have done; he'd want to make sure that Cassim was caught before he left.
Option 2 is a possibility. The sultan had said he wasn't going to excecute Cassim, so unless he's going to hang around and watch him forever he can't guarantee he won't escape and might as well go do something else.
Option 3: Sa'luk doesn't leave Agrabah until after Cassim escapes. It could be luck, it could be that he's going to try to steal the Oracle himself since he's won Rasoul's trust, or whatever. But in any case, in this scenario Sa'luk would have found out that Cassim had escaped with the Oracle, figured out that he'd probably go back to the hideout, and hurried to get back there first so he could ambush him and take the Oracle for himself. Of course then you have to explain how Sa'luk got their first when Cassim left before he did. Maybe Cassim and Iago didn't take a direct route?
Random thoughts...
Was Sa'luk planning to try to get the Oracle and ultimately the Hand of Midas all along? Or did he just seize the opportunity once Cassim showed up at the hideout with the Oracle in tow?
Was Sa'luk expecting any of the thieves to have escaped the raid? Did he notice when he checked the dungeon that Cassim wasn't the only one missing? In short, was Sa'luk surprised to find some of the thieves still at the hideout when he got there?
How the heck did Aladdin and Cassim not find out that most of the Forty Theives had been captured? I realize they were busy and all, but do you mean to tell me they didn't notice all those prisoners being brought into the palace and that no one had been talking about it? You think Rasoul wouldn't have mentioned it? Even without knowing the KoT is Aladdin's dad, that's some great Aladdin-baiting material and I'm surprised he wasted it. Or was he going to wait and show off his medal?
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persian85033
Elemental
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 2061
Location: Agrabah(I wish)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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That's true. Surely Al or Cassim would have heard because Rasoul said the Sultan hadn't sentenced his prisoners yet. Of course, Al would probably only have wanted to get his dad out. Or maybe he wanted to get all the theives, because they were connected with his dad, but it was too risky. But then Cassim didn't seem surprised to fidn that only seven theives were there.
_________________
"I too am a member of your species, Captain, or I was. Perhaps I am not anymore. Perhaps you are right in thinking of me as an alien. I know I am different from you. You see-I do not kill." |
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Calluna
Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 3692
Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| persian85033 wrote: |
| But then Cassim didn't seem surprised to fidn that only seven theives were there. |
I think he was. Remember Iago's line, "I'm not crazy about a 40 way split". Not a nine way split.
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"If only I could believe you. Perhaps I can! After all... you do bear the name of a flower." -- Arbutus |
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